Bike Fit: improve cycling performance and reduce injury with a quality bike fit
Video taken from the channel: grandstandclinic
Bike Seat Pain | Bike Fit Causes and Fixes
Video taken from the channel: Bike Fit Adviser
Bicycle Saddle first video in series about seat comfort for cyclists
Video taken from the channel: BicycleLab
Easy & Expert Bicycle Set-Up: Stop Knee, Back, & Sciatic Pain
Video taken from the channel: Bob & Brad
How To Prevent Back Pain When Cycling | Injury Prevention For Triathletes
Video taken from the channel: Global Triathlon Network
Bike Fit | Causes of Knee Pain and Solutions
Video taken from the channel: Bike Fit Adviser
The Bike and Your Back: Proper posture positioning on a bike
Video taken from the channel: Citytv
Proper Bike Fit Can Prevent Pain and Injury Adjusting the Bike Saddle. Your bike seat should be level to support your full body weight and allow you to move around Handlebar Adjustment. If the handlebars are too high, too low, too close, or too far away, you may have neck, shoulder, Bicycle.Bike fit fixes: Use the seat height guidelines in ” If the Bike Fits—Buy It ” to find your proper position, and raise or lower your saddle as necessary. See a professional fitter if the problem.
Correct Bike Fit Can Prevent Pain and Injury Cycling has grown in popularity in the last 4-5 years. Unfortunately some people fail to get their new bike set up for them from the start. Poor positioning on the bike can lead to injury and a decrease in performance.Our aim has always been to help individuals through their injuries and then make the necessary changes to help with their recovery. If you’re an avid cyclist and are experiencing pain in the lower back or in the knees, perhaps it would be a good idea to get your bike properly fitted.
It might just make cycling more enjoyable for you again!Probable Causes. The most common cause of back pain on the bike is a poor bike fit. A proper bike fit is everything when it comes to keeping your back happy.
In particular, being stretched out too far on the bike, due to low handlebars, your seat being too far back, or too few stem spacers, will strain your back.Proper Bike Fit Can Prevent Pain and Injury Whether you are riding to the corner store or across the country, you should be comfortable on your bike. If you have neck, back, or knee pain, saddle sores, or hand or foot numbness, your bicycle probably doesn’t fit you properly.
Proper bike fit means you have a position on the bike that lets you ride as long as you want, as hard as you want, and stay comfortable the entire time. A.“ Bike fit is a huge issue with hand pain and numbness, because of having too much pressure on the hand.” He adds that a lot of bike fitters will simply raise your handlebars to release that.A bike fit helps you avoid issues like chronic knee or back pain, according to Lazarski, and for most riders, a proper fit will also feel more comfortable and help them pedal more efficiently.For the average person—those bike riders lacking a neck injury—these changes are probably not necessary, with standard bike fit recommendations working perfectly well.
For those with a neck injury, however, these or other adjustments can make.Maintaining proper riding technique can help prevent these overuse injuries, as well as reduce your risk of having an accident. For example, riding with your elbows bent allows them to act as shock absorbers for bumps in the road. That’s not only good for the joints, it gives you better control of your bike.Preventing wrist pain using bike fit If you have any aches and pains when cycling, particularly if they only exist whilst you are on your bike, the first step is to look at your bike fit.
There are.Neck Pain Neck pain can be caused by fatigue (just like lower back pain) or a poor bike fit and can be alleviated by strengthening exercises and a proper fit. Also, relax during your ride. A tight grip and tense posture will cause more pain in your neck than with a relaxed posture.
Weeks explains, “Correct bike fit and technique corrections from the instructor generally avoid most injuries from rhythm riding.” Be sure to get a good instructor who can correct your posture as needed, so you can prevent this from happening.Trained Experts Though most cyclists can continue to train and compete through back pain cycling, the pain reduces power on the bike and overall enjoyment riding. A proper bike fit can help prevent and diagnos back pain cycling.
A bike fit should be performed by nothing less than a trained expert particularly if you’re already having issues.
List of related literature:
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| from Muscle and Tendon Injuries: Evaluation and Management |
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| from Encyclopedia of Sports Medicine |
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| from Gravel Cycling: The Complete Guide to Gravel Racing and Adventure Bikepacking |
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| from The Cyclist’s Training Bible |
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| from Netter’s Sports Medicine E-Book |
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| from Netter’s Sports Medicine E-Book |
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| from Extreme Sports Medicine |
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| from The Triathlete’s Training Bible |
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| from The Bicycling Guide to Complete Bicycle Maintenance & Repair for Road & Mountain Bikes |
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| from Triathlon Science |
160 comments
started getting back, shoulder and neck pain from biking lately and now I see why.. I’m doing that bad posture so much. *hops on bike to do those measurements*… jeez.. turns out my seat is too low.
Great video! I have a question if you don’t mind. I’ve been fiddling with saddle inclination for a while, until I found that the most efficient for me is almost completely flat. However I did experience som discomfort, like the front of the saddle kind of applies some unwanted pressure to the perineal area. To counter that, I moved the saddle forward 5mm, without making other adjustments. It solved the problem but now sometimes I have some odd pain on the inner lower side of the knee cap. I think that maybe it was caused by moving the seat forward, but I’d like to keep it that way because otherwise I’d get saddle sores as I said. How would you go about that? I don’t wanna risk messing up too many parameters all together by myself because the fit is otherwise good for power and control, and my back feels fine even on long distances, which is rare these days…
How to call the instrument that measures the angle for proper posture?
Hi, ive had an encounter with overuse of my legs causing ITB pain (could barely walk normal). I gave a few days and it seems normal until after my rides when it becomes inflammed. Ive tried ice, foam roller, stretching, and trying to adjust my cleats. I cant seem to figure out what keeps causing it. The pain is not as severe from the first encounter bt it still comes back. Do i need more rest? Could my cleats be too outboard? I keep changing the turn of my cleats but never the side to side movement, and i just read about lateral cleat misalignment causing IT band pain. My saddle is also definitely at the right height.
That maybe ok for a beginner to set up his/her own bike but there is nothing expert about setting up a bike that way except raising the handlebars for back problems.
You’re right with finding a good position. You’ll always be stronger for longer when you’re comfortable.
And yes, as mentioned in the comments, Your socks are off the scale exceptional Heather.
Ride safe…
What causes toe drop and heel lift. I have a herniated disc. But have no pain
There are many people who have their own view on bike fit, none are etched in stone. One bike fitter admitted it was all subjective. Only way to get an idea is to experiment and see where you are comfortable with and there is no pain or numbness anywhere. I know I can take a 52 cm frame to a 54 cm frame. Another way to find out is pay $$$ for a top quality bike fit and see where you are at and start there. For beginners, start with saddle height and go from there. Measure your inseam and multiply that by.883 and you get a number where you measure from the center of your bottom bracket to the top of your saddle. This is a starting point.
Im sooooooo dumb. Why im 5’11” riding woth the seat all the way down? No wonder I’ve been having neck pain. Adjusted the seat and its a wayy better experience.
Injured my lower back while Cycling. My body was fitted to my bike.
I went to Dr Hessler, a chiropractor in Imlay city, Michigan. He deals with Sports related injuries.
He got me back, Cycling, by time I left his office!
Thanks be to God and Dr. Hessler!
The handlebars should be and inch below the seat? Excuse me? Why dont you just get a mountain bike then, if speed doesnt matter
If your upper body is heavy get a wider cushion seat boom that fix my bs..
I need to share this with my husband, great tips and you two are so funny!!!
Horizontal body on aero bars, Elbows together, and head tucked in.
just learned how to ride a bike today, and it hurts so badly.
Very good advice. Sit bone width can be misleading. Borrowing a range of saddles is a great idea. Could have saved me a lot of money had I done this. It sure is a complex subject.
Very interesting video! I love your channel for finding the cause of pain in biking! Helped me with numbness in my hand! Though this video didn’t quite help me with my type of knee pain… I have knee pain on my right knee on the outside of it, near the top. I haven’t found anything talking about that type of pain. It doesn’t happen all the time, but often enough for me to notice it especially when I’m climbing or putting down a lot of power. Do you have any insight to this problem?
Got to say this actually works! I wrote on another comment previously I won’t ride my bike anymore because of the pain and after about 3-4 more times with the adjusted seat I can! It does also help that I bought a wider springier seat but still until I adjusted the height it was still hurting. Now I can ride for hours so thank you so much #Bike Fit Adviser!!!!!
Hi, I wonder if you could advise, I have medial knee pain on my right leg and lateral on my left after about 15 miles, this happens on my road bike (clipless) and my mountain bike (flats) could this be something simple to look at? Great vid btw. Many thanks
Why does the reporter keep staring at the camera? �� He’s like “are you watching people, keep watchin! Kay people, just makin sure you’re payin attention….(hmm..I can’t wait for lunch break..)” ��
I urge to you both to let one complete his sentence before speaking yours. It creates lot of confusion.
my hight is 5’11 inchs. but my cycle fram 26” and body 18. if sit up for leg pain then start hand or wrist pain. what can I do sir? if u give me any like I will give u pic cycle and sit position. plz answer and help. thx
can you make video for Saddle height for MTB? your are video really easy to catchy
handlebars are always too low..mountain bikes are killing the youth.
Top tube 2-3″ below groin…at what point on the top tube, it slopes upward? How about top tube length and it’s relation to stack / reach etc. I have shorter torso, longer legs and bikes that fit in the standover, are usually too long in the TT. Bikes that fit in the TT are way too low in the standover. Indeed, one may compensate with seat rail and stem length, but there are limitations/consequences in going “to far” in each of these…
Thanks man! Greatly appreciate you sharing your knowledge and expertise and the time to explain this! ����
This video is great, it is excactly what happent to me. I was ridding on a saddle that was too narrow for my pelvis and got injured because of it. I had to quit cycling for 8 months and still I don’t feel quite right.What really botherts me is that it’s not the saddle to blame for but ignorance, mine & the people who own bike shops and they are not abble to give you the right advice on saddle and bike fitting. I wish I could forward this to all the cyclists on the planet.
Great video. What are your thoughts on KOPS? Is it a Myth? I always strive to perfect my fit and still find myself making minor adjustments. I have always used KOPS but came across an article by Steve Hogg which talks about your center of gravity (COG) over the pedal a more important method. Basically a good test would be to pedal with your arms swung back behind your hips and if your saddle height, fore/aft, and cleat placements are good you should be able pedal at the same cadence (even faster) with no arms on the bars? Have you heard of this method and is this more accurate?
Hello, I ride a triathlon bike and I have pain on my left knee (quadriceps tendent) I have a saddle to centre crank of 80.5cm and I have 170mm cranks. Is there something I can do about this because I can’t put my saddle more up. Maybe don’t do all my trainings on my TT bike? It is mostly when I put power in that it starts to hurt… (sorry for crappy english) And nice channel btw, love it.
No shit you must be a chiropractor cyclist LOL:P. I am guessing because there is a bench right next to your bike.
Very helpful. Thanks. Going on from this theme, what considerations do you need to make when selecting a pair of cycling knicks? In my case, what would I need to look at for a pair if underliner shorts for mountain biking and doing some long distance (100km give or take) rail trail riding?
hi bfa, I usually don’t have much knee unless I tick them off lol by mashing. It happens when the rider in front of me accelerates and I mash down to grab the wheel. Would shorter cranks make a difference or should I get out of the habit of mashing? TY and awesome video!
bicycling is shit for your back. wait till u get over 50 years of age and have a more rigid back. then you will experience that sitting slumped forward on a bike will be harmful to your lower back.
i cant cycle anymore cause the posture that is exerting pressure on the lower back vertebrae is pushing on the discs between the vertebrates, giving me strong nerve pains in the lower back and legs.
i wish more doctors and cycling experts would be aware of this. cycling is shit. get your exercise by other means.
Ok. So i had pain in the upper front of my knees, it definitely was the quadriceps tendon.
I was riding 32km, 5 times a week, low cadence, flat feet angle, hard gear ratio and low saddle.
I changed my gear ratio to make it easier to pedal so now the force i have to apply to the pedals is lower. But after watching this video i can now notice that at the top of my pedal stroke my knee angle might be too bent and my feet tend to be flat at the bottom.
So i’ll play with increasing saddle hight and pointing the toes down at an angle and see how i do.
I havent experience pain in the back of my knee luckly.
Thanks for the tips.
nice vid…..what is the best way to level saddles with kicked tail like Antares and nago evo?? level it from front to back or just the front portion like manufacturers recommend?
Is there a kind of thumb rule to set the correct toe down? Often, after pedaling over 80km under a strong pace, my IT band hurts but it feels better if I tilt down my feet. However, I don´t know if I shall do it all the time. I use to set the saddle height to the upper limit to mitigate fatigue.
What if you get a sharp pain in one buttock but not the other? What does that say about your saddle/positioning?
Omg the back of my knee was starting to hurt. Put my seat down the pain is go.Thank you
Hey i just watched your video to try and fix an issue I have. I have pain on my inner knee when i only ride one of my bikes. Maybe you can give me some ideas on how i could adjust my cleats because i think its a cleat issue.
People e5ho ign5or uppet cetvi5csl spesific only chiropractic will have what appears to to be uneven leg lengths. Use upcspine, upper cervical health centers, nucca, thespesific.com
Just found your channel and LOVE IT! Thank you so much for the time you have put into all your vids. Learning so much from it. Had a bike fit a year ago but my current saddle basically collapsed (selle italia diva gel flow). Totally flexible now so changed to bontrager anja. But my sit bones feel so pronounced. Haven’t changed anything else but will make sure the saddle is level and the reach is far enough. Where are you based? Would be great to actually visit!
It’s really helpful in a professional way. Thank you. But I have a big problem, I mean as you can see from my text, my english is very poor (specially when I listen). So could you help me how can I get this video with subtitles. I know you are laughing now but when you t inish laughing, please write me back something. Thank you.
I’m 6’2 260lbs and can’t find a good saddle. I have a 29 inch mountain bike. What do you recommend? Can you send me links to some please
What about rounded shoulders and pec muscle shortening? tight hip flexor problems…?
Thanks for posting this video bike fit advisor!!!
I started feeling pain at the bottom of my quad tendons the last few weeks from my saddle being too low. I hope it’s not permanent!
I am curious if I should do anything special in my mechanics or bike set up for being flat footed too.
I ride an mtb btw
I think it may be too late for me, but I have developed an issue that I felt compelled to share. I sincerely believe at this point I have been watching Bob and Brad, the two most famous physical therapists on the internet, either too frequently, too long, or a combination of both, and this dynamic has led to a psychological condition that, at this time at least, seems rather permanent. How have I determined this? Well, quite simply put, the introductory jingle is most definitely stuck in my head, most notably during my waking hours, but also invading my psyche at night when I get up to go to the bathroom. Fortunately for me, this song is a pleasant one, and since I have learned so much from these men, I cannot complain, as my physical betterment as a human because of their advice has made a great positive difference for me. All that said, I will continue to watch this channel, and have come to peaceful terms with the musical merriment that now bounces back and forth inside my skull, but if there is some special movement I can do, like hanging upside down with inversion boots to free up at least some more time for my own thoughts, that would be appreciated. Thanks guys! Love ya!
steve
Echoing so many other comments already, but great video as always. I’m trying to find just the right fix for my RT Lateral Hamstring tendon pain. The pain starts within the first miles of a ride and is pretty consistently annoying. Not enough to make me stop, but always there while riding. I pull up quite hard on the pedals when I sprint or dig for power, and I’m wondering if that might be causing some issues. It is only on the right side, but as you said in this video, everyone sits a little differently (and rarely squarely) on the saddle.
solving a problem involves patient analysis and first principles. this seems exactly what you do in a calm step by step manner. thank you.
Great content. I have a salsa Fargo that has been giving me IT band issues. I tried different seat heights and moving fore/aft. I also recently just switched from 175mm to 170mm and still IT flair up. I have 2 other bikes, giant tcx and revolt that cause me no IT band issues. Both have 172.5mm. Very frustrated because I have actually stopped riding the Fargo because it causes me discomfort and not sure how to which way to go to eliminate IT flair up. Thank you!
What about neck pain from craning your neck up during a long ride? Anyway to prevent this
I’ve got a Trek aero seat post (that won’t twist) and a saddle with titanium rails. I keep popping the head off the the screw on the left side (6 times so far) of the seat post bracket/clamp. When I use a saddle with steel rails, the rails eventually get bent so that the saddle is twisted. I already have a cleat spacer meant to make my leg lengths consistent. Is there some other adjustment that can be made?
Great video. I’ve been getting some knee pain recently and now got a good idea where that is coming from. My pelvis is pulled up on the right side according to my Physiotherapists.
Thanks for posting!
Someone adjusted my seat, they claimed they knew everything about bikes. Apparently he adjusted it too low for me. I developed a painful Bakers Cyst back in April of this year and my knee hasn’t been the same since. The doctor doesn’t even know what exactly caused it but told me definitely having the seat too low is a problem. Every time I ride I worry if it’s going to pop again. Although the cyst is gone, I am having discomfort virtually every time I get on a bike. I used to ride 40 miles, I’m down to 7,8. 9 or none at all. I will look into a different crank size. But honestly. Feeling so discouraged. I do have toe clips on my bike. I really am not comfortable going clipless. I have been using those clips for years with no problem. But since the cyst, I notice my right foot (the leg that had the cyst) likes to flail outward. Supinate I think it means. I do try to keep my foot straight in the clip but wonder if it’s better to let it naturally drift to the side? The left leg stays fairly straight in the clip. My doctor says the toe clips shouldn’t be a problem judging from my chart. When I bike I can only seem to tolerate up to around 9 miles and then I either feel tight where the cyst was (back of the knee) or sore at the top of the knee with it wanting to pop again. I did get adjustments to this bike with a professional bike fitter but that was back in April right before the Doc diagnosed me. My seat was raised and some adjustments were made but he never mentioned the crank length as a possible culprit. I am not even sure what my crank length is. I am 5’3.. It really sucks not knowing what exactly caused this cyst and now subsequent pain. I have been doing squats and lunges, Pilates, using leg weights doing hamstring and quad and glute exercises and I do run also. But I’ve gone weeks without cycling just to avoid the pain or the possibility of pain and that’s not the future I want to have as a cyclist. I miss my confidence which this has robbed me of. I don’t have any friends who cycle so I feel pretty isolated and no one understands the pain and frustration I’ve been through so I feel pretty alone:( Anyone out there with advice would mean so much.,
I’m so old that i always called a ‘saddle’ a seat……i thought a ‘saddle’ was what gets strapped to a horse ��
hallo can u help me please with my new bike i dont know how to make sure that the saddle is in the right place since about a month i have a very bad knee pain it would be geart to get more info from you or replying
thanks
Does rider weight matter when selecting a saddle? More or less cushion? Rail material? Any other factor? I have a custom made bike, selle italia gel slr max, getting post ride, tenderness in perineal area. I’m a heavy rider.
Thank you very much! I almost thought my cycling career was over. Thanks again!
Thank you for the video, I have a question.
I started cycling on a road bike last year. I cycled about 1000km with clipless pedals and road shoes (also had a bike fitting done at a local bike shop, nothing pro though) and my back of the knee hurt. It hurt when I bent the foot at the top of the pedal stroke.
After few months of pause, I put normal pedals and cycled about 6 months (2000km) with normal shoes with no pain. This was until end of May this year. Start of June I bought new shoes (cause last didn’t fit too well) and after a good month (and a bit more than 500km) the same thing happened. Pain in the back of the knee (only on left leg).
I’m 164cm and my inseam length is 74cm. My crank length is 170mm, frame size is XS. What do you reckon could be a cause to this problem?
Thank you.
Hi John I have been getting knee pain when climbing, on a long climb the pain gets worse and worse until it nearly unbearable and the it suddenly goes and the process starts again, its below the knee cap when riding and to the inside after a ride, any ideas?
Andy
6:00 whom the fuck you killed dude to show us that skeleton skeletron?
Hi. Interesting. But there is different thing involved in that motions. For 30 years I ride bike in completely different way. My knee bend to the frame in upper position. And only then I have not problem with my knee. And that happens only when have larger Q-Factor on pedal. For 30 years that saves me from pain. When I try to change that “bad” thing, for the first time my knee start hurt.
Most important is ankle position and natural rotation of ankle on pedal stroke. I have knee close each other when I walking. There is people they are opposite. So, do not force knee to unnatural movement. Just adapt Q-Factor to follow that movement. Larger Q for closer knee, and smaller Q for wider knee.
Generally, saddle position will be that you bend knee slightly in 6 position. I thing that is wrong. You have to follow movement with ankle and push it down. Look at professional. They newer reach that 6 position. If you bend knee, and your foot is horizontal, you push pedal to wall. And loose power to nothing. Pedal stroke must be constant. Before 12 and after 6 o’clock. That can be key factor for lower back pain.
I’m 6” tall. On newer bike have cranks 172,5. Can’t ride that in any position, with any Q and saddle high. It is impossible for me. Lower back kills me. On older bike are 175 cranks. That is much better. But I have proper riding technique of riding. When you have proper technique on different terain and situation and apply that for riding, longer crank gives you benefit for longer ride (slightly shorter crank is for sprint on flat). Proper technique and proper bike fit will solve any problem. Not shorter crank. It solves problem with numbness and you can ride faster and longer for free. With same power.
I’m not pro rider or pro bike fit expert. I’m just gay with 30 years of experience and several 100000 in my ass. I can’t swallow all that expert recommendation for extremely shorter crank and knee in line. It is wrong for most of the people. And it is dangerous.
great vid.. also leg length can have a big part of pelvis rocking. i ended up with 5mm of packing under the left cleat so my left leg isnt reaching for the pedal.
I bought a new pair of riding shoes, cleetless pedals, and my hamstrings and gastric cramped on me so bad. I hurt for two days afterwords. My old shoes didn;t casue this to happen. I do have knee problems when not on the bike. Chonamalica and calification of the meniscus. How do I adjust the cleet to take care of this problem?
Hi. i feel th pain on the outside of the thigh. from knee to around 10cm higher. ive tried to chnge i think everything. Probably u know what can cause that sharp pain wich is lastin for allmost 2 years now.
OMG. And this is why you go to a TRAINED BIKE FITTER and not a chiropractor to get proper fit on your bike. We no longer use the TOP TUBE stand over for frame sizing and fit… we use proper STACK measurements. We don’t use fore and aft we use a measurement called REACH. The Plumb bob drop from knee to foot came about in the 1960’s when they had no other tech for measuring! If you notice the seat was tipped down. Begin your fit by leveling out the seat, get biomechanical measurements and then develop your individual degree of angles. It is the SKELETAL SYSTEM which supports your position on the bike and then the muscular. If you just support yourself by muscle, not discussing core here, your hands, traps, arms will become sore very quickly on a bike. AND DON’T GET A PADDED SEAT OR SEAT COVER FOR COMFORT. If you are set up properly on the ‘sit bones’ you don’t need the gel, which will only cause you more fit problems.
STEM height, which can also change by the angle of the stem either negative or positive cannot by a fixed 1 INCH BELOW YOUR SEAT LEVEL. Stem height depends greatly on the FLEXIBILITY of a rider. Handlebar widith is very important to a proper fit on a bike. OMG pedal placement:!Only relating to cleated fit! The full carbon soles are so stiff many people place the cleat between ball of the foot and midfoot. (there are several schools of thought here) Lastly, IF YOU experience discomfort GO TO A TRAINED REUTIL BIKE FITTER even if you have a 500.00 bike you like to ride. The experience will be much better.
amazing video on this. love to see someone who really knows what they are talking about!
Would love your thoughts on my predicament.
my gf and I have just begun our cycle from Alaska to Argentina, but only made it 2 days before I had to stop with a knee injury. we didn’t do any training as we only got the bikes a few days before we left….bad idea i know.
We then left anchorage on our hard tail mountain bikes with panniers and frame bags and way too much weight. we cycled 70km the first day and 60km on the second.
half way through the second day my knee became extremely painful on the interior top part of my patella and the inside of the tendon joining the patella to the quad.
We didn’t do a bike fit at all and I’m sure it was due to the massive increase in volume and weight to an extent but I think mostly the riding position.
We’ve rested for 5 days now and are keen to get going but it’s still a bit painful when I cycle. we’ve had a bike shop take a quick look at a fitting but there aren’t many places here that specialise in fitting.
what would you recommend we do? do you think spds would help as now I just have flat mountain bike pedals?
apologies for the super long message, but wanted to give the full picture
Thanks
George
Easy & Expert English Set-Up. There’s no such word as heighth.
Part of the setup should also be handlebar height and reach. What you covered was simply the seat position. Seat position, crank length, handlebar height and handlebar stem length are all part of a correct setup.
The position under the foot of the axle is something that is still disputed. I agree with Bob and Brad that it should be where indicated but some pro cyclists prefer it further back under the arch. Scott Hansen is 1 of them and he has spoken about it on some youtube videos.
One very important thing not mentioned in the video is. If you get serious enough into riding you will get cycling shoes and cleats. These need special adjustments usually done at the bike shop. The best cleat system give you about 15 degree of lateral foot rotation from side to side. And your seat will have to be repositioned because of the sole and cleat thickness. If cleats aren’t adjusted correctly you will definitely get knee pain and the only remedy is proper cleat adjustment. Anyway happy cycling. Thanks Bob & Brad for the great tips.
yes! very interesting. I have battled with lower back pain and saddle height, fore aft etc for over 25 years….curiously, a high saddle (lets call it heel +5mm) is painful when riding but great for my back a few days later, whereas a low saddle (backpedal with heels, hips not rocking) gives me a great ride but pain the following days due to some sort of referred pain from tight hip angles. The former saddle height which is not that high, (nowhere near 0.885) gives me that outer side knee pain…. still trhing to get to the bottom of this!! And before you ask, yes I have tried shorter cranks! Thanks!
Could a bike fit fix my knee problems ( I have chondromalacia )? I ride a track bike on the streets, sometimes I have to grind on steeper bits. So I can’t really set my cadences.
Hello,
You were demonstrating an internal rotation of the tibia when the foot is inverted, could this be a mistake? I thought the tibia did an external rotation when inverting the foot? If I’m right, this still might have an important influence on the ITB I guess, but maybe not by stretch?
Gr, Miel (graduating student physical therapy dreaming of a job like yours)
Hi there, is specialized romin aa good choice for mtb and road should i level it as well or fallow specialized instructions and level the mid third part of the saddle?
What about pain right below the head of fibula (outer lower leg) on the peroneus longus. Does it have to do more with saddle height, cleat angle or pronation vs. supination? Thank you in advance, your help is much appreciated.
Thank you so much for explaining saddles for women as well! a lot of videos i’ve seen overlook these differences.
I ride a trike recumbent because i have balance problems because of age. Since there is much less bending over the hip angle is greatly reduced and the knee angle seems less. Do you think i can run slightly longer cranks? I run 165, like to try 175.
Really helpful to learn and adjust little things from my bike fit
I am overweight, and my butt hurts for sitting on bikes. It takes me days to recover before I get back on the bike. Any idea?
Really really really good video. Wow! thank you so much for your video!
I just discovered your channel and this video is great. My knees are causing me lots of pain but it’s more in the front towards the inside area of my quads. The left is worse than the right and this possibly because my one leg is supposedly slighty shorter, though it may be more due to contracted quadratus lumbarus back muscles (as shown on an MRI scan) pulling my hips out of alignment. I’m going to try shorter cranks to see if that helps.
I recently bought a bike that had some unique features at a good price, and, although it was the largest frame size, I suspect it may be a bit small for me. Could you tell me what the likely symptoms would be when a top tube (reach) is too short?
Extremely informative and clearly presented. I suffer from every possible condition on the bike from numbness to boils and have found no relief regardless of who fits me to my bike. I’ve gone through so much $$$ trying to find the right seat and position. I just might investigate your saddle. Sounds interesting.
trying out different saddles or going for a bike fitting is a nogo for me because even though my arse does get quite sore, it takes a couple of hours of riding. I wish it would happen quickly so I know right away if the changes I make are for the better or not.
ive been pretty depressed the past few days I just bought a mountain bike with the intent on getting back into bicycling and damage my back almost immediately. after watching a few videos on how to make corrections on your bicycle and your body I’ve had my hope restored.
So who couldn’t watch the video because you were busy reading the running news below? We are team ‘Boreonykus’!
I have excessive Anterior Pelvic Tilt off the bike and I totally fail the “thomas test” (my legs are 45% pointing towards the top). I have anterior knee pain for almost one year now.. should I work on my body off the bike since it’s clearly not a bike fit issue, but there are options to use more posterior chain muscles on the bike (hamstrings, glutes) by moving the saddle more back right? I do ride an kind of aggressive position with only one spacer below the stem so hip angle is also an issue..
hi I’m having knee pain and I believe its due to my lack of flexibility and strength since I just started 2 months ago. 180cm rider bike size 56. 175crank arms, I think I will but 170s to decrease the 12 o’clock position of the knee and maybe shorten the stem as well to be in an even more relax and straighter position. pls respond to help a guy out
Hey john, I’ve getting back on the bike after a 4-5 mo. Hiatus. I was riding some fairly easy miles and increasing the climbing from day to day I developed a bit of pain on my quad tendon as you put it. The tendon right above knee cap. I did slide my seat forward a bit. That seemed to not help so I slid it back. That seemed to help a little. I still feel it every now and then after some longer climbs, Where as before it never bothered me. My sit bones and the tissue around them are a bit sore on climbs longer 20mins. Also kind of new sensation. Did I really get that soft in those few months. Like your channel!
If you have bike fit issues, consult a bike fitter at your local bike shop. If you have a riding-based injury, or significant pain, consult a qualified sports physician or physiotherapist.
Never understood how people can ride so curled up. Got myself a long parabolic handlebar, now riding with a straight back vertically in complete comfort. My crotch gets blood circulation as well, haha.
I don’t really understand the relationship between fore aft and back angle. Why does further forward or back require a lesser or greater bar height? Thank you for the videos!
Well explained. I need to know more through Physical Therapist. Bike fitters should consider all of this, truly. ����
Thanks for the video.
Between 9 and 14 degrees knee flexion is considered too much by every professional bike fitter I have ever heard. Between 20 and 25 degrees is considered the norm, otherwise your backside starts to rock from side to side.
My problem was two fold. I have arthritis in my right hip, so in order to ease some of the pain on the up stroke while peddling using the 172.5mm cranks. I had to raise the seat which in turn would cause pain to the back of the knee from being to high. I could never find a happy medium! So for my situation, shorter crank = less rise on the up stroke allowing me to lower seat to correct height, ending back of knee pain! How nice would it be to be able to have a bike made to your body and it’s range of motion…CHEAP…heaven! great video btw!
Bike fit is very individualized….I understand you’re speaking to the average person out there just riding around, but more aggressive setups really can be comfortable, even for hours at a time. It’s a combination of bike setup and the riding position. A strong core is paramount to minimize back issues when riding. I think Bob’s saddle position is fine in terms of fore and aft. On that frame, you wouldn’t want to sit straight up. That’s how a cruiser is set up, but not his hybrid. That slight flex forward is fine, but he needs to keep his weight on his sit bones and perhaps just a few degrees of nose down. Level saddle is a good starting place, but generally needs a tweak.
Hi, I hv bought a MTB last week and I am pretty happy with performance. It has 3×9 gears in combination. So my 1st ride was for 10Km 2nd 24KM and 6th ride was 60KM which is a big incrementing numbers for my kind of guy who never ride a Geared cycle ever before this long.
So here is my question, I always have this tail bone pain if I ride for long, I have bought cycling shorts keeping in mind that it would gv me some comfort but still have kind of pain.Moreover, I have a gel seat cover over the saddle as well,I guess i should remove and try with gel Cycling shots alone. But how do I get to know whether my saddle doesn’t require to move forward or Backward as per my height i.e; 182CM. Could you please suggest me something on this so that I can ride comfortably as I know I have the potential to ride long just need a guidance.
I have experienced pain at the back of my knee (hamstring) and I belive it was too much cycling caused the issue (overload). I teach Spin 3X a week and cycle outdoor 3 days a week. So, could this be true?
Lοvε this bαck prοblεms guidε, “Bαkοnοz Kοnο” (ɢooɢlε it)! I hαd bεεn α bit unsurε but usεd it yεstεrdαy αnd wοkε υp with α mοrε cαlm bαck. Givεn thαt I αm plεαsεd with thε εnd rεsults, I αlsο sεnt thε gυidε tο my mοm αnd fαthεr. Thεy rεαlly likε thε plαn αs wεll. It cοuld sοlvε yουr lοwεr bαck pαin quitε εffεctivεly.
I am begging you; stop with the further word. It is annoying to hear it so much. The correct word is farther. Please stop the further crap.
Excellent stuff. I wish you lived in Scotland so I could visit you for a bike fit.
I like his stare to the camera following the thanks at 4:22 Josh is very serious about his work in that field: )
Any experience with the Infinity Bike seat which is a more radical open design?
The DEFAULT rider position seems to be a SLIGHT FORWARD INCLINE. I find that this induces UPPER BACK, SHOULDER AND NECK PAIN over several hours of riding. Shouldn’t the default position be PERFECTLY UPRIGHT with VOLUNTARY LEANING FORWARD for extra power climbing and riding against the wind?
For me I think it’s from swimming. When I stop of a recovery in an interval I can feel my lower back tightening.
Can u plzzz suggest gadgets u use
Like fit band, shoes,…….. etc
Plzzzzzzzz
Sorry what did you say at the beginning? couldn’t stop starring at the bike… #WANT
You can’t get maximum power output if your knees are not fully straight at the lowest pedal position.
So you have a link for where I can order the devices used to convert the bike for “inside” use? Still rehabbing from bilateral knee replacement and hitting the streets is not always an option with winter coming. Don’t want to loose ROM. Thanks!
I spend most of my time on my feet. Specifically in the summer my job as a chef is very busy.
Feels like my performance is going backwards. With no time to recover and do my strength training, I don’t know if I should step back from training for my half ironman.
Any advice will be appreciated.
Thank you
Another cool video.. For me I have to do loads and loads of miles.. I think we all underestimate just how long we need in the saddle and how hard it is to achieve with a busy life.
Literally having sciatic pain today and have been riding my bike a lot wondering about this. Lol Coincidence much?
how sure are you about the tibia rotating that way? (when you talk about it at around 6:20 time)
thanks for the video!
regards,
M
Whoa wait up, after you explained how important it is to get the weight distribution between pedals and saddle right, you skipped ahead and started talking about saddles, without going into HOW to achieve the perfect weight distribution, but you say that’s the most important thing so….
THANK YOU! My sweet husband a few years ago purchased me a bike, and it was an uncomfortable monster. I rode mountain bikes for years and loved them. But this road bike was way too big for me to ride comfortable and I had to jump up to get on. And well I literly have to lean over to get off this monster, not to mention the falls I have taken. He used a store clerk who must have been 6 foot to size the bike. I am 5’4″. The last fall I took I gave up biking. I am now know as a hiker!
Still preparing for my race… these are just perfect videos
I think you really know what you’re talking about and your advices seem correct, I will use them to fit my new gravel bike, thank you.
When I started and was able to do a 5km bike ride a friend invited me and we did a 20km ride, way longer than my fitness lvl was able to accomplish back then. After 10km my lower back was numb because the excessive pain. The solution was to strengthen core muscles. After 2 weeks I was able to do 20km comfortably.
Soo… No one is going to talk about the dude that sneaks up at 1:57, watches calmly at 2:11 and then ( 2:30) proceeds to just
CLIMB THE FREAKING TREE DURING THE VIDEO???
okay…
Lower back pain appears whenever I restart cycling after a long pause away. It is usually accompanied by hand and foot numbness. They all disappear after weeks of riding.
so why do you think i pulled my periformis muscle and now have sciatica from it……Two weeks now..
By watching this video twice, I agree with most of it. Few things I noticed that it should include: saddle positioning. Some people sit farther back while others sit more forward especially when on drops. The rider in this video didn’t even do that. I know that when I have drops and go more down, I scoot back a little so my spine does hurt or ache. I’m no elite cyclist. I just like riding and building bicycles.
anyone finding good results with biking as part of sciatic recovery? or cutting out biking?
Bit the bullet a few months back and switched my cranks from 172.5 to 165 mm… Amazing, what a difference.
finally first video where I can clearly see correct way to adjust seat forward backward and how to measure it.. Thank you!
Great video guys, I’ve watched many videos on this because of my back n knees and you took 11 min and 30seconds, simplified.
Hi John, I agree that crank arm length could cause knee flexion problems. How mch difference would a 5mm longer crank length make?
Oo, this was a good one, guys! Thank you! I love the idea of showing us the correct form when we’re doing something so we don’t injure ourselves to begin with. How about one on raking leaves as a lot of us will be doing that soon!
Just found you, Have watched a bunch of your videos and you do a good informative job.
By the way, for those interested in avoiding all the potentially serious medical issues that arise with standard bicycle saddles, might I suggest a saddle I have been riding for the past two years (ever since a fellow cyclist let me try his). This saddle has been an outstanding decision for me, and I would never return to a traditional saddle, because I really enjoy the absolute nonexistence of genital pressure and the associated issues. If interested, below is a link. It is pricey, but in my opinion, well worth the comfort and staying healthy:
https://www.spiderflex.com/
Cranks typically run from 170 to 175mm. I don’t think 5mm is going to do much for maximum knee bend. For my height, I’m supposed to use either 172.5 or 175, so that’s a 2.5mm margin, which will have even less impact on your theory. Saddle height is by far the most important fitting motive for knee pain, not crank length.
Thank you for this video! I am very new to riding, and am working to improve my form, posture, pretty much everything.. Very helpful, as I actually have to slide back on the saddle a little bit now. Thanks again guys! Great job!
Too bad you’re not in the NYC area, I really need a good bike fit. I’m having too much knee pain on my bike.
I have seen so many videos discussing knee pain and saddle height, this is the first I’ve seen that talks about crank length in that context which makes a lot of sense.
That both of them try to pass themselves off as physicians with the ‘Dr’ BS completely undermined the validity of everything they said..
Use same bike indoors and out… I only get saddle discomfort if I’m indoors cycling
These are excellent starting points for all cyclists. As we become more experienced (addicted), making further adjustments can fine tune our ultimate bike fit. Like most things, bike fit is a process that will change with experience, health, age, etc. The local bike shop should usually be the place to go if it’s your first bike. Lots of first time mistakes can be avoided with a bit of professional help.
b&b, i like the quotations you insert at the beginning of a segment..
I ❤️��♀️. I’ve had several back surgeries. I can’t run anymore so cycling is my “go to” for exercise. I stretch & drink lots of water. Great information guys!! Y’all are so cute!
Thank you for all your videos!
How do I know if my knee flexion is not excessive? I am asking because sometimes I have top front knee pain. From your description it seems more the quad tendon connection to the knee. It is obviously exacerbated when I go too hard too early (from a period of inactivity). This only happens on my left knee. My left leg is visibly stronger than my right one, and my left foot is one size larger than the right one. This is the only discomfort I have on my current set up. How do you suggest I start investigating? I just found your channel, great videos, thanks!!
Nice! You can keep your back straight in a lower position by being more flexible in the hammies.
First of not going to a chiropractor is like not going to the dentist for a tooth pain. You just have to find a good sports chiropractor…and one that practices what he preaches.
Now what if you don’t know how to ride a bike like that but use a stationary bike. Any tricks or tips?
I have lower backpain when i have to cycle harder uphill headwind ore when i am racing
Its hard to know in triathlon who knows what and who docent. I recently suffered a back injury from a aggressive aero position. I trusted a so called “professional” bike fitter determing the position. Despite my repeated warnings that I had limited hamstring flexibility, they never did any flexibility testing on me, that was a bad sign. I built the stack back up and droped the seat, that solved the back problem. I also use basic yoga that helps tremendously with my poor flexibility. Information like in this video helps me make the best desitions for myslef thank you.
Thanks for the fantastic product! Thank you! The saddle saved my butt! How happy I am! I can ride again!
I cannot believe all those great bike manufacturers produces those butt killers. Fortunately there is wonderful people like Josh who can save my ass!
Recommend the Kontact Bicycle Saddle to every bike rider! Thank you!
You can watch as many videos as you like about bike fit it took me over 2 years to get my fit right only after suffering hours and hours on the bike, now i can just jump on any bike and make it fit without anything in 2 minutes. one thing else i noticed that every few months i was getting lower on my bike and my reach was getting longer because my flexibility was increasing because of spending hours on the bike every week over the 2 years now i can even touch the floor with my knuckles with my legs straight in the standing position and hold it there for 1 minute.
I have pain in both knees, it all started this year with a bike which I bought last Autumn. I don’t remember having the pains last year but I also only rode 5 times before the winter. Now starting this year around April after approx 10 trips (15km each) both knees started hurting like a bitch, especially when starting to pedal when I’m not warmed up and when I’m off the bike it hurts when I get up from a seated position (couch, bed or chair). Pain is coming from the front side of the knees. I suspect my cranks are too long, 17.75cm and my height is 185cm. Could that be the case or it’s probably something else?
Thank you, good idea this form of the saddle. You can move back and forth without pressing on your prostate.
It would have been good if this video canvassed knee pain that arises from cleat mis-alignment.
When I recently made the transition from flat pedals (plus good ol’ velcro straps) to SPDs+cleats, a whole bunch of things had to change partly because of a bunch of small geometry changes, but mostly because a fixed foot position is a lot less forgiving on the knee (unless you’re lucky and you hit upon the perfect cleat position first time).
Under the “old” configuration, my pedal straps held my foot on the flat pedals just fine (especially since I do 99% of my riding indoors on a KickR), but looking back it was kinda like having a huge amount of cleat “float”: my feet could twist however they needed to in order to prevent any stress on my knees.
Now with SPDs (at a default float i.e., some wiggle room) and cleats positioned as good as I can get ’em, I finish a 30-minute ride with significant tenderness at the top front of my right knee… indicating that something about the cleat setup is askew (basically: my right knee has to take a path that puts it under unnatural tension at some point in the pedal stroke… but I have no idea which point).
Anyhow… long story short, I will continue to tamper with my cleat angle over the next few days: it has to be something to do with the position and angle of my right foot, as opposed to seat height or seat fore-aft adjustment.
Left side is perfect.
Great!
Any hint on cleat/foot alignment with the bike axis?
I’m battling against this lateral right knee discomfort and I think driving has made my right ankle more flexible than the left, so it kinda bends to the the outside. I mean, I need to correct /align my right foot and ankle whereas my left stays positioned. It’s also weird but then my right knee hits the frame more than the left, so maybe I’m sitting misaligned and/or my right leg is shorter.
I’ve seen that toeing-out the feet may aid with lateral knee pain, but than it’ll hit the crank arm.
What do you think about cramps,would be possible due to a bad fitting position on the bike?
Simon You should follow the link in the video description and ask them if they can ship to the UK or if they have them available
hey John, i have question you maybe can help me with. i have been suffering some knee pain for quite a while now, never knowing the reason for this. the doc could not find anything. i just should wait a while. after Like 10 weeks i still experience some pain. yestterday i had an MRT on my knee. but again. everythings seems to fine.. but the doc had the idea that my spinal disc might have an influence. even though my back just feels fine. since i have to wait another 4 weeks fior my next appointment, i would like to ASK about your opinion on that matter. thanks in advance
Foundation training by Dr Eric Goodman was a god send for my back pain. Doing this 12 minute excercise everyday made a world of difference to my lower back pain https://youtu.be/4BOTvaRaDjI He also has a good ted talk on the subject.
I think it doesn’t depend on a specific point about saddle adjustment,,whenever u feel comfortable sitting on it that’s it,,every body have different adjustment,,this is my opinion.
EXCELLENT explanation of saddle fit issues! Having the model, with speaker wires, really helps me understand how the body contacts the saddle, and how the saddle needs to accommodate that physiology. Can’t wait to view their other vids.
Wonderful info.. I have riding for a while, but I stand wiser today:)
Hello, I recently lowered by stem, by a spacer, probably a 5mm spacer. I have been experimenting with various positions of the saddle. Ranging from moving the saddle forward on the seat post and thereby being able to sit on the wider part of the saddle; to moving the seat back on the seat post. However, i still experience some sort of discomfort in the pelvic area. I am hoping for a more aero position by dropping my stem, do i simply sacrifice comfort for this aero position or should I look else where to solve my problem? Thanks.
Sorry to sound like a grump but I’ve watched a few of your videos and I feel like it’s putting me off cycling. I’m a new cyclist and was looking for information to make my cycling more enjoyable however, your videos make it sound really complicated and sometimes impossible to achieve the objective. Surely there’s a simpler way to get in the right position with more comfort? I’m sure all this information you’re giving out is correct but there must be another way?
what are your thoughts on switching to a folding bike from a comfort bike, where I sit up straighter and shift my weight backwards. i am shorter, have sciatica and carry a lot of weight near my middle. some comfort bikes work for me, others not-cause sciatica pain